“One of the reasons he’s fun to work with – he has a really fine, raw sense of horror. By way of exaggeration and selective grotesquery. His view of reality is not entirely normal. Ralph sees through the glass very darkly.”
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, June 1974

One of the many facets that sets Hunter S. Thompson’s 70s works apart from other forms of classic American literature are the growling, snarling, punch-between-the-eyeballs illustrations of Ralph Steadman. Roaring from the pages, his pictures visualise the horrors of corporate America, ripping the surface to reveal the political greed and other grotesqueries that contort and degrade the human forms within his pictures. With his method of isolating and focusing on a physical idiosyncrasy, he explodes his subjects, capturing a hidden truth that was hitherto unseen; it’s as if Steadman sees with the naked eye of a schizophrenic.

Bloodsucking business men, venal politicians, dollar drugged gamblers, archetypal beholders of negation and power transmogrified into grinning reptilia, squarking sharp-beaked birds, gorgons of sheer inhuman greed. In the ferocious stroke of a few simple lines he trans-atlantically expresses all the negative facets of the human condition to a terrifyingly hilarious degree. If we think of the old metaphor of the artist’s pen being a sword, then Steadman’s scribe is nuclear.

Below is an almost verbatim conversation I conducted with Mr Steadman via a phonebox on Kings Street in Manchester city centre. His rumbling Welsh accent was full of charisma, his personality very accommodating, meditatory, thoughtful and warm. When talking about the death of Hunter S Thompson a real sense of bereavement -the only sort that can be when a real friend passes by- was prevalent in the tone in which he talked about him. Amidst rush hour traffic and passing packets of suit-encased, office imprisoned flesh, the conversation went thus …

You must have been gutted when HST committed suicide.

I always knew he’d do it, but I didn’t know when. It was always the case of I always knew that that one day I would take this journey but I did not know yesterday that it would be today. That’s how it felt and it was way too soon. So upset about it. And I knew he’d do it but I wished he’d just shot his dick off. Something that would give him pain but have him talk about it, because instead of shooting away the one exceptionally wonderful piece of machinery in his body: His brain! The centre of all his being. The centre of his genius really. And he is a genius, no doubt about it as for going down as a great, great journalist writer. He didn’t write novels, he took William Faulkner’s advice about fact being far more stranger than fiction.

I mean I just wonder why he did it? You know if only I could have talked to him. Once! Just to say ‘What the fuck! Don’t be daft, Hunter, for fuck’s sake!’ That’s why I thought if he’d shot himself in the foot or something… But, you see, if you can imagine: in a wheelchair, a man of action, a man who always done exactly what he wanted to do, suddenly realising he has no control anymore and he’s gonna end up in a home with a lot of old people scared him. It’s that thing: ‘In the end it was no use, he died on his knees in a barnyard with all the others watching.’ It’s that indignity he couldn’t stand the idea of.

What was he like as a character?

He could be mean. He didn’t like sloppy drunks, even though he imbibed so much stuff he was just on another sort of level I suppose. I don’t know how he carried on like he did. Like he said: ‘I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they’ve always worked for me.’ That’s the well known phrase. He wasn’t no pusher. But he couldn’t stand sloppy drunks and he wasn’t a sloppy drunk cos he never seemed drunk.

Did he ever frighten you?

Yes, many times in the car. I wrote a song with him once called ‘Weird And Twisted Nights.’ One of the lines is “Drive your stake through a darkened heart / In a red Mercedes Benz / The blackness hides a speeding trap / The savage beast pretends.” We’d driven. . . And this was another one of his tricks, he used to like to drive at night with his lights out because the police wouldn’t see him, a starlit night – “The scar heals black . . .”. There’s a record of it you can get from EMI, it’s called ‘I Like It’ (1999).

What is Gonzo Ralph?

Gonzo is a strange manifestation of ones intentions to go somewhere to cover it (the story) euphemistically as a journalist and yet end up being part of the story, not part of the story but become the story. You make one, you have to generate some sort of tension, some oddness, some unexpected freaky thing that makes it go, ‘Yes that’s it!’

The other thing is there is no accreditation for gonzo journalists, so you go there as an outsider. Like we went to the Miami Convention in the Seventies and we had to get inside without accreditation, that was part of the target. It’s to be a rock and roll journalist. What’s a gonzotic frenzy? Well it’s me in the throes of an ink splattering attempt to capture the feeling I have at that particular time.

I like the gonzo logo that HST used for his Sheriff of Aspen campaign.

That red fist – by the way it’s got 2 thumbs and 4 fingers. Have you noticed? Hunter always said to me ’2 thumbs Ralph, don’t forget 2 thumbs!’ It’s the idea of a freak isn’t it? Anyone with 2 thumbs is obviously a freak or a monkey of some kind, a gorilla. And the flower in the middle of the palm, the green flower is a peyote drug plant.

Have you taken much peyote in your time?

No. Hunter was the one who enjoyed all that shit. I’ve taken coca leaves, I’m very fond of coca leaves but I can’t get them in England. I tried them in Peru, between Cusco and Machu Picchu is a little stop off on the train called Olan Taytambo, and there they sell it to you with wood ash and you roll the leaf around the wood ash like rolling a joint or a cigarette. You put it down the side of your gums and just leave it there and you don’t suffer from mountain sickness, anxiety or anything at such a height which is 13-15 thousand feet above sea level. I’ve got a wonderful book which is probably 100 years old called ‘The Divine Plant of the Inca’ (W. Golden Mortimer – 1901) and it’s all about the coca leaf.

Tell me about when you ended up screwed and shoeless in New York City on one of your first assignments with HST…

‘The Kentucky Derby Is Decadent and Depraved’ was how it all started, the meeting with Hunter for the first time. . . There’s innocence and experience meeting for the first time! The shoeless episode was the second trip where we went to Rhode Island to cover the Americas Cup and I was shoeless and luckily I’d kept my ticket and passport home.

I had my ticket back to New York from Rhode Island (Boston Airport) and then I got a cab and got to 42nd Street where the bar was thankfully still open, the magazine (Scanlan’s Monthly) had closed and I was in a terrible state and coming down from psilocybin. A drug trip, which was the one and only trip I ever had and that was when I said, ‘Right, drugs are out entirely.’ I enjoy a drink. And I was palpitating, so I borrowed a quarter from the Irish barman, cos I had no money in New York, nothing in a hell of a city! I phoned a lady friend called Vendetoce who I knew from the Bologna Bookfair. I made the call and she said “I’m just going out.’ I said ‘Please, don’t go out, stay there till I get there, please!’ She could tell I was losing my voice and she did stay in.

When I arrived I was purple with palpitations and she got a doctor right away and he gave me a librium injection that put me out for about 24 hours. The irony of all this was that before this happened I put her in hospital with a fracture in Italy when we went into a ditch via my car. Imagine how mad she was to speak to me again! Bless her heart. Anyway that proves there are good people in the world. . .

HST once described you as having a paranoid flash within your character. What did he mean?

A sudden desperate fear that everything something terrible is about to happen. Because I always thought that my heart would stop beating just like that. Bang! Why? My question was: ‘Why should it keep beating?’ It’s an odd question but at the same time that’s a paranoid flash. Why take it all for granted for Christ’s sake? So I never did, and then of course I kept thinking about the fucking thing all the time you know and now I’ve come to terms with it. Touch wood and touch wood now even. He (HST) gave me a lovely head, which I’ve got on a cord around my neck. Sort of a strange primitive face and a long thin piece of what looks like clay or stone. He said: ‘Wear this Ralph, it’ll ward off evil spirits.’

Do you see an essential beauty or aesthetic in the grotesque?

There’s an aesthetic even in watching an operation, there’s an aesthetic in putrefaction. I mean to watch how things breakdown and there’s a kind of aesthetic beauty in that. But it doesn’t mean to say you’re being sick, you do see that but you’d rather not watch it. It’s not ugliness, it’s just a rather unpleasant beauty, because there’s nothing ugly in nature. . . I’d love to be a fly on the wall or to be a fly on their piece of shit! Hahahaha!!!!

How do you get those ideas when you transform people in such frightening animal forms?

I see if I can make human beings look like reptiles. I see if I can make them look like hideous creatures that would not come out of anything but perhaps. . . turn a human inside out. . . take a human being, supposing you can sort of like a rubber glove, turn him inside out and then look at it. That’s how it’s really like. When I’ve done a drawing like that and I’ve done a few, I tried to make the person look as though they’re completely turned inside out and I called him ‘The Perfect Gentleman.’

What’s your idea of a living hell?

Not really being the slightest bit interested in what it is I’ve done all my life. Not wanting to do it and then not knowing what to do next. That would be a living hell. I must have a feeling that: ‘Oooh I’m really excited about this!’ The most depressed times I have is when I just don’t wanna do anything. A living hell is not being creative, being utterly devoid of any creative impulse whatsoever.

Does the new political scene make you shudder more than it ever did?

I can’t be very interested in what are no more than P.R. men. That’s all they are – P.R. men for a policy, or a new sort of: ‘Oh why don’t we try it this way?’ As Hunter said of George Bush: he was a message boy for the big boys, the corporate interests in America. That’s all he is. And that’s what’s happening over here, we’ve got spin doctors, people that manipulate everything and everything is manipulation. It’s not winning through a feeling one has about a person. ‘Wow! I wanna follow that person. I’d vote for him.’ Not because you’ve heard something spun about him, but because he feels something. Like you do about Nelson Mandela, you can’t help feeling the guy’s a good man. It’s passion, yeah! Something wonderful. Maybe Tony Blair started out like that, when we suddenly thought: ‘Wow at last, a fresh air politician!’ The man was clean and then he had his dour man, but nevertheless honest dour Scotsman, Gordon Brown.

What are the elements in society that piss you right off?

I’m afraid of the ethos of reality T.V. which pisses me off. It’s not reality television, it’s completely phoney, things that are made up, phoney! It’s not even fiction, it’s contrived bullshit! And celebs that have done nothing and they have to be celebs and they have to go on television. It’s a terribly sad culture to develop or to pursue and take it further and all in the name of the god Mammon. There’s nothing else in it and I just wish there were. And I wish that kids weren’t being fed it all the time. The kids are not brought up to have minds of their own as individuals. Some do, some break out. Maybe it’s always been like that but in a different form?

We’ll probably get by you know, but I think we might not be able to overcome what which is we’re doing to the planet. You see, nature will do exactly what it must, and if we are a hindrance to its development, to even its destructive powers to reform itself and we are in a way, we will go. No doubt about it. We seem to think we have some control over this planet. I once saw a lump of Greenland breaking off into the sea and moving south, which of course will affect the atmosphere and us generally, and it’ll happen more and more. And as the South Pole starts to melt! We were down in Patagonia in December and it was such a wonderful wilderness, just across the water was the Antarctica and I felt: ‘What an extraordinary thing and what puny pieces of nothing we are!’ I’ve just been doing a series of paintings of that area. Look, all in all I’m trying to be an artist, the fact that I was a gonzo journalist-artist of a type, met Hunter Thompson and went that way. That happened. I can’t do anything about that, I’m glad it happened. It was like hitting a bullseye first time in America. But I wonder what I’d have done if I hadn’t met him?

Was is you that did that famous caricature of Mick Jagger with those over inflated lips or was that Gerald Scarfe?

Mind you don’t get me mixed up with Gerald Scarfe! I’ve done the Rolling Stones eating each other. Don’t worry, because people always say: ‘Ooh I love your Pink Floyd.’ No I didn’t do that! Gerry came up to me and said: ‘ Can you help me? I like your line.’ And so I said: ‘Why don’t I introduce you to my art teacher? Leslie Richardson.’ Whose daughter Lucy by the way, is Lucy from ‘Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds’. They lived in Weybridge and that’s where John Lennon used to go into their antique shop with Julian. And John used to come in there and Lucy was always playing with lovely old bits of antique jewellery, they were sparkling things and Julian liked them. And that’s when he thought ‘Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds’, that lovely song. It doesn’t detract that L.S.D. became part of it.

She was only 47 and I went to her funeral about four months ago because she died, and her mother Lesley said a really nice positive thing to say: ‘She had a good life. I couldn’t stop her dying . . .’ You know but . . . She was in film, she worked on all sorts of things, on Lord Of The Rings and was doing very well. A lovely lady. And everyone had to drink pink champagne at her funeral. ‘Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds’ was played in the church, it was lovely.

What sort of music have you been into?

The Grateful Dead of course. I loved Eric Clapton. And Chet Baker the trumpet player. And I loved Dvorak and loved listening to William Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg reading to music. And I’ll even listen to Gyorgy Legeti. I’ll tell you what he wrote was the theme for ’2001′. He was a modern composer who then just went off into all sorts of weird stuff.

I was thinking of ‘Thus Spoke Zarathrustra’ but that was Strauss. You like Nietzsche don’t you?

Yeah I do. There’s another guy called Max Stirner who wrote some very radical things about politics. He wrote a book called ‘The Ego And Its Own’. I don’t know whether I can find it here. . . [Sounds of shuffling through papers]. . . Yes he’s German. ‘The Ego And Its Own’ Max Stirner:

“Question: What does man believe in?
Answer: I believe in myself, the answer of the common soldier.

Question: What is the principal of the self-concious egotist? Answer: Change the question to who instead of what and name the individual. Man is the horizon or zero of my existence as an individual. Over that I rise as I can, at least I am something more than man in general. A somebody rather than a nobody.

Stirner dispels morbid subjection and recognise each one who knows and feels himself as his own property, to be neither humble nor be fobbed but henceforth sure footed and level headed. A mist of this body who has a character and good pleasure of his/her own, just as he has of his/her own.

This is not transcendental generality. This is the transitory ego of flesh and blood. You and I cannot be reasoned into one, we are separate beings, two separate egos. It is important to be a self-concious ego in a self- conscious self-willed person. This is not self-obsession.

Those who pretend selflessness are constantly acting from self-interested motives but clothing them in various guises. Watch those people closely in the light of Stirner’s teaching and they appear to be hypocrites, full of good moral and religious plans of which self-interest is at the end and the bottom, but they are not aware of this. That this is more than coincidence. In Stirner we have the political development of egotism, to the dissolution of the state. The union of free men is clear and pronounced. . . ”

Is that boring the shit out of you? Hahahahaha!!!!! Just that whole thing gets to me because it is about self and yet you’re not being selfish. You care about people. But you want people to be straight forward and honest in reply, if they can help you or you can help them. Surely that’s better! That’s community, that what we’re afraid of doing and we’re killing it. You know, we’re really destroying ourselves because we’re really making the motivating force of anything we do selfish. Really acquisitive in a way that’s really not the point of it.

If there was one book that you could now illustrate, what would it be?

I think it’s gotta be Rabelais’ Gargantua And Pandegruel, about the big baby creature. It’s a tough one. I tell you what I’ve just illustrated: Fahrenheit 451, which is the temperature at which books burn, and Ray Bradbury wrote the book 50 years ago, (he’s still alive), and together that’s what I illustrated for him. When I’d done it, he said: ‘You’ve brought my book into the 21st Century. Thank you’. Which is the nicest thing to say.

The book is as important as 1984 and Animal Farm as real powerful social comment, because it’s about a fire brigade burning books. So that they try and stamp out ideas and a group of people get together and each of them take it upon themselves to learn by heart one book before they get burnt. It’s really worth a read. I’d say get the book but you can’t at the moment because there’s only 451 copies, a limited edition. But I’m sure Simon & Schuster or someone’ll do it. He wrote another wonderful book called The Illustrated Man. To write ‘Fahrenheit 451′, Ray Bradbury hired a typewriter and a room for 38 cents a day and he wrote it in 9 days. Try and read the book cos it’s kinda interesting, a definite must to read because of the implications of burning every book in the world.

You worked on Private Eye didn’t you?

I did in the 1960s. That was when I got involved firstly with Punch, but they weren’t really interested in social comment, they wanted jokes. And I went to Private Eye with a joke called ‘Plastic People’ and Private Eye bought it for 5 pounds and said: ‘More power to your elbow!’ And they published it with a double page spread in issue number 11. That was when Willie Rushden was there, Paul Foot, all those sort of people. Do you know I’m frightened that most of them are dead. Willie’s dead, Paul Foot died. I think it’s something to do with dying, I don’t know what it is? [Goes introspective and semi-silent for a second or two] He was a good journalist Paul Foot, very strong left-wing old Labour guy. But never mind, there’s nothing wrong with that, he believed in something!

That’s what’s wrong with them today, they don’t really believe in anything, they’re paying lip service to something. And that’s not belief but something entirely different. Ad-men is what they are absolutely, advertising a product. ‘We’re selling you this, it’s called New Labour!’ Or bright new Conservatives [chuckles], I don’t know what they are. People I don’t know hahahaha!!!

Didn’t that style over substance politics start in Nixon’s time or even Kennedy’s?

The thing about Nixon was that he really believed . . . He was just venal. He didn’t realise how evil he was. I think he was a genuine politician but with a remit of his own. A huge, deep belief in his own fabulous qualities. His dark scowling face made him a bogeyman. For a caricaturist he’s a . . . a gift! I was able to do all sorts of things with him. The light at the end of the tunnel. Offering cyanide pills to Spiro Agnew his Vice-President, and his was in the stocks being offered pills by Nixon. Who was always dressed in black. He was wonderful to draw. That’s when I had my best times in political cartooning.

It became something when we all suddenly felt: ‘This isn’t about domestic things, this is about life and death! Our lives are being fucked around!” Used to anyone’s ends, particularly corporate power with Enron and the rest. It was the “respectable” companies in Nixon’s time, who became monsters as time went by, and they ran politics and they still do and Bush is merely the bagman, the messenger boy for the dark players. I’m not into conspiracy theories, but I think they went into Baghdad for all sorts of reasons which are not made clear. And the way they use the word: ‘Terrorist. . . Terrorist. . . Terrorist!’ That’s become a mantra or even a trigger for fear. Mention the word ‘Terrorist!’ in George Bush’s voice and it’s something else. We can see through it but we can’t do anything about it!

You see that’s what I think is such a terrible, terrible betrayal, the trust that people have in government. The betrayal of people’s good will, good trust that things are being done for the best and they actually ARE being done for the best. Perhaps. But people betray that and let people down and cheat them. To me that almost fits into the same category as crime and torture. One of those unforgivable crimes that torture is for me. . .”

The sound of exasperation and anger in Ralph’s voice was genuine, a real rage about the dubious world order of our times. Whatever his age, this guy still has the growling edge and essential punch that makes him the greatest caricaturist of the modern era. We tied up our conversation with talks about wine, the fact that the British government wanted to eradicate the use of the Welsh language, polite regrets that we hadn’t conversed over a pint and an imploration that I follow and woo a woman who had mistakenly opened the door to the phone-box; sagacious sounds drowned out by passing road sweeps tidying the days litter from the floor of Manchester’s premier street of designer shops and parasitical employment agencies.

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Anarchic, eclectic and unique are some of the words used to describe dee-jay Erol Alkan, who’s been injecting his imagination and energies into his renowned club night Trash since January 1997. Having transferred the night from the Annexe club to The End in 2000, the night Trash is held every Monday night and is only six quid to party till the early Tuesday hour of 3am. The night has hosted classic live performances from the likes of Yeah Yeah Yeah’s, Bloc Party, Mylo and also seminal sets from the likes of Felix Da Housecat, 2 Many DJs and Tiga over the past five years.

Erol along with Trash colleagues Rory, Mavs and James for their part have played an influential role in making club nights interesting again by offering party-people a chance to listen to their expansive music policy and see classic new bands before they hit mainstream. If it’s an underground rock&roll tune that was made in 1959 he’ll play it. Same applies for all other types of music. Soul, techno, kitsch, punk and electro. He plays it if he thinks it’ll lift the roof; or if the party wants it, the party will get. No musical fields left unsown for Mr Alkan and friends. Can’t get to Trash on a Monday? Then keep an eye out in view of Erol also being resident dee-jay for Bugged Out and quite frequently plays events in North West England. So if you fancy some mashed-up music fun and the chance to hear classic tunes of schools old and new then check this guy out.

I managed to chat with Erol about his dee-jay life, his night Trash, his tastes and the moment he was offered a Bugged Out residency on the spot. Here are the highlights of our conversation.

Why call it Trash?

Erol: Any anwser I could give to that would be equally profound as disposable. There’s no real awnser why. It was either Trash or Hard As Nails. You become your name and it becomes you. (Is Trash a brand?) Absolutely not – I’ve tried my hardest to not make it a brand. Although some people have an ideal as to what Trash is.

How long you been djing and what did you first play music wise?

Erol: 15 years now. I have a tape of my 1st DJ session I mixed together at my friends house. Lisa Lisa & the Cult Jam with LFO. PWEI with Renegade Soundwave. The Charlatans with some acid record, really badly. It was 1990, I was hooked on Fantasy FM for a year.

What other dee-jays you been into?

Erol: I have a soft spot for turn tablists. Mix Master Mike, dj Kraze. Those guys who are purely entertainers. I wish i could do what they did. I never will though. I also rate anyone who gets up and plays music they love in some cohesive order, thats all there is to it, i think. It’s always gonna be entertainment and/or playing other peoples records. It’s also about whose taste you like as well. . . it goes a long way.

Is every set you play different or do you ever replicate sets?

Erol: I try and keep it as interesting for myself as possible. keep enjoying it myslef, and never to palm the public off with mediocrity

Any new bands on the horizon that you like?

Erol: Ummm. my mind is blank. I’ll think of some. There are loads at the moment. The Blood Arm, Cazals. All the bands playing the club I suppose.

You ever heard of an old rocker called Link Wray?

Erol: Of course. ‘Dueces Wild’ is a fave. I used to play it at Trash a few years back. I’m currently inflicting the regulars to Lard at the moment.

Are you planning any more remixes?

Erol: I am actually halfway through two. Although I shouldn’t say what they are as I’m not sure if I will be able to finish them on time, but I would love to do five more this year. Five really good ones.

Any big offers from commercial bands?

Erol: Had a few big offers, but I wouldnt discriminate against anyone’s art or music. You sometimes feel its in vain so you pass.

So if Phil Collins asked?

Erol: If Phil asked and the song was great, then why ever not. It could be good.

What was your first gig you seen?

Erol: First gig. . . I can’t actually remember. I spent a few years in my late teens relentlessly drunk. I cant remember much from then.

Where you from then?

Erol: London, Archway.

Tell me about your internet radio station. How often is that broadcast? Erol: Oooh. Every 2 months or so, doing a new one tomorrow. have you heard the Trash mix on the site? There’s a link on the board.

What’s the difference between Bugged Out and Trash set-list.

Erol: Trash is rock n roll, Bugged is dance. But both have to be full of personality.

How did you get involved in Bugged Out?

Erol: I met Johnno from Bugged Out one night in some club, and got talking. Maybe 2000? He was aware I had dabbled with the bootlegs as such and was curious. We got talking more, and we talked about Trash and stuff. I then told him i was a big fan of electronic music. One night I ended up drunk at his house and just djed for what seemed like days, fast forward a few months and David Holmes has to pull out of his 19th Hole slot at Fabric and I get asked to fill in. It goes well. Halfway through I get offered his residency and that was pretty much it.

Are you planning or have you ever created music from scratch?

Erol: I have done but under a different name and im not telling! It’s a secret – innit.

What your impression of the Manchester vibe?

Erol: I love it – sincerely.

Is it in anyway different to the London atmosphere?

Erol: Yeah, very. It’s warmer than London for sure. But no better or worse.

What’s with the Smirnoff event in Manchester?

Erol: Well I dont usually go for corporate things but I drink a lot of Smirnoff and it’s a free gig. And they do put together half decent line ups. I just turned down a massive money deal with a major tobacco firm.

What sorta set you gonna play for that?

Erol: I’ll do whatever I think the party needs. But as you know, I wouldn’t go there to tour Trash. I don’t take it anywhere. If I brought Trash, I would have to bring the people too cos thats what it’s about.

Do you choose all the artwork for Trash. Flyers etc?

Erol: Yeah, I tend to do it all myself, hence to poor quality! Or authentic – as I like to call it

Any festival plans this year?

Erol: Glastonbury hopefully. That was the best one last year in the UK. It was great last year!

Do you ever get mashed when playing? Erol: I drink like a fish always have done and rarely dj sober. I dont do drugs to be honest.

So if your requirements in music stretch into eclectic terrains of mashed-up fun and good times that break boundaries, then check Mr Alkan and friends. See the Trash Club website for his movements and superb downloadable sets from Erol and other creative dee-jay luminaries. Otherwise keep an eye on Bugged-Out and festival sets that are due in the summer months. Respect the Alkan.

‘Wilson ya wanker!’ is a statement that has been bandied around Northern England for thirty years now. The Wilson in question, the original media facilitator Anthony H.Wilson, is a self-proclaimed wanker, but he don’t care. One of the most important record label bosses to grace the history of rock and roll, his story has been told on countless occasions. From regional television news presenter where he sported a punk-green streaked barnet , via his discovery of Joy Division, the Hacienda nightclub, New Order through to acid house and Happy Mondays, Wilson’s been a powerful catalyst within many great pop-cultural moments in the last 25 years. He’s been part of a story that’s involved the birth of post-punk, suicide, insanity, liquidation, narcotic excess and converting football thugs to the rebellious French thought of Situationism and dancing. By creating Factory records on Palatine Road, Manchester in the late 1970s, signing bands he saw and thought were important to the progress of rock and roll, he’s always promoted an unequalled passion and energy for music, culture, the dynamic city of Manchester and British youth culture. He may be a bit of a wanker, but he’s also played a part in changing modern music forever.

Way back in 1978 at the Rusel Club in Moss Side, Wilson organised a spectacle where Joy Division and Cabaret Voltaire shaped the sound of post-punk. Ever since he’s been a magnet for creative expression, with a truly survivalist instinct, gusto and resolute desire to find the next important thing. Fast forward nearly thirty years and a new band have been found with an even newer sound of British hip-hop in the form of Raw-T. Signed to the latest instalment of his mythical record label Factory Records, now entitled F4, the Mancunian collective have the element of danger and experimentation that has always attracted Wilson. Listening to their debut album one is confronted by deep digital shuffles, slick raps that talk of a British urban way of life that is sometimes tragic, always real and other times amusing. The point is that Wilson has found another gem and he’s not resting on the laurels of his glory years; the man of passion is still searching and using his media clout to highlight what he feels to be important to music and life. Great rock and fucking roll kids!

Asking Tony Wilson a question is easy, extracting information even easier. Ask him something as simple as the time and you’d receive a cultural pontification about the lines of the Meridian and the way it effects the Northern psyche. Respectively finding himself lost in Swindon and taking his nutcase New Order dog for a walk on the two occasions we spoke, he was distracted many times during the conversation. But due to the sharp thinking of the man, he managed to keep a solid thread through out and spouted long, detailed soliloquies about his iconic past, his hip-hop present and things that’ll kick off in the future.

What do you say to people that shout “Wilson you wanker!”?

I just keep walking and have always ignored it. Funnily enough I’ve got to go to Chorlton in about an hour, because Harry Goodwin the original rock and roll photographer of the Sixties has a show which he asked me to go to. But Chorlton I despise with a passion. I come from Salford, then lived in Marple, went to school in Salford, went to university when I was 18, went to London when I was 21 and aged 23 came back home. I’m on television as a local reporter and putting music on television, just soundtracks really. I thought my generation will love this, we children of the Sixties, but who in the early Seventies were all solicitors, young teachers and trainee accountants in Chorlton and it turned out they utterly despised me. Just like all those people who shout “wanker”.

I remember going to a Rory Gallagher gig in 1975 at the Free Trade Hall and there was two thousand people and one thousand one hundred and ninety-nine people fucking hated me. And I just thought ‘What the fuck have I done to these fuckin people? What shits they are.’ And then about a year and a half later along came punk and suddenly I’m at The Circus and all these kids are like ‘Hey Tone, thanks for putting Costello on, thanks for putting Iggy Pop on.’ I realised I found my generation and they weren’t my fucking generation. So people shouting abuse has happened for a very long time and I find it kind of amusing and irrelevant.

What sort of bands are you looking for to add to the F4 roster?

A band that’s going to sell a lot of records because they’re important. The most innovative is always the most commercial at the end. The Mondays did sell a lot of albums, they sold a couple of million albums which I think is reasonably good, but if they hadn’t had the self-destruction they might of sold some more.

What made you want to start a new label?

I’d never really stopped I suppose. I had a two year layoff between the bankruptcy which led to London Records buying Factory, that awful period of Factory Too ended and I had to walk away, and when I finally got tired of the Space Monkeys we stopped again. It was always a question of the next time we sign a good band we’ll start again. We started again with King Rib and they found a wonderful lead singer, but they became Simian which are not my cup of tea. I went to see The Music in Leeds: I was taken out by their manager and fell in love with them and I spent six months arranging the new label around The Music, and at the last minute their two managers who were friends of mine brought a third manager in who was a complete twat, he wanted a bidding war and in the end signed for lots of money to Hut. It was very depressing and I was outraged for about two years. [The Music weren't that good though Tony]. No, The Music were that good and they had that potential, but the way their managers took them was completely fucking wrong and ended up taking them nowhere. If we’d have put them in the right environment then they’d have created a far more important second album. So the wrong environment has just fucked them. In fact I heard someone within their camp say that to some one the other week, so yes that’s what I think about them.

And as I say it’s never stopped, it’s always if I ever see a great band.When I saw Raw-T live at In The City I was blown away, there were several major labels there who were also blown away. I presumed that my job with Raw-T would be to bash them around the head when they started behaving like twats, and instead the majors all offered them crap singles deals, no one offered them a real album deal and suddenly the rest is history.

Who’s designing the imagery for F4?

I have a graphic designer who I’m very fond of called Jason Nichols who does In The City’s stuff and in it’s great having him move on from that to do the record sleeves. He did the F4 thing and I’m very happy with that. We were originally going to be called Red Cellars and there was a very clever designer called John Walsh designed a Red Cellars logo and was doing the whole thing. I took him to meet Raw-T and he met them and experienced them and got a logo from one of their boys, took it away to work on and a month later had been too busy to do it because he had more important work on. To which after a few days I exploded in a very unpleasant manner and said, ‘Fine, the most important thing in the fucking world is Raw-T so you can fuck off!’

Strangely the reason it’s not called Red Cellars is not just that my partner thinks it’s a good idea cos it relates to Factory and it avoids a fifteen minute explanation of why it’s called Red Cellars. But it was when I was lying in my bunk in the Amazon rainforest doing drugs, the very night Raw-T’s first single had to go to press, and I thought if I call it Red Cellars I’m going to have to use John’s logo and I’m so angry at John for being too busy to do Raw-T, and so utterly outraged I refused to use his logo. So I needed to think up a new name, and finally thought F4. That was out of a fit of anger at one of Manchester’s best designers for having been too busy to do Raw-T. I always say to people that the portrayal of me by Coogan as an affable fool is very sweet but in fact my daughter who is next to me will testify, I’m a truly horrible person. And you have to be to get things done.

Would you ever start a new nightclub again?

Yes I would but it’d be very difficult. I’d love to have somewhere like The Castle in Oldham where Raw-T go and play, it’s like a cross between an Oldham pub and 8Mile by Eminem. I’d love something like that, but then again that’s a fucking nightmare anyway, so maybe not. I’d love to do that personally but I can’t imagine it happening, I now have so many other little jobs in my life and it gets complicated but who knows maybe one day.

What band in musical history do you wish you could have signed?

Everyone wishes they could have signed their own Velvet Underground; that’s the history of the interesting side of rock and roll. We all would have liked to have our own Velvet Underground and that’s about it really. I got Joy Division, I got the Mondays and now I’ve got Raw-T and I wouldn’t complain for one moment.

What were you talking about when you mentioned that music culture was based around 13 year revolutionary cycles?

I used to think that there was a thirteen year cycle, but then the revolution I expected in 2002 didn’t happen. I always think that what happens is that English kids absorb American rock and roll and regurgitate it with English irony and sell it back to them. But this time it didn’t happen, it was Welsh kids, one could argue that Lost Prophets and Funeral For A Friend were in some way that kinda thing I was hoping for, but it didn’t happen so I’m quite happy to accept that.

But at the moment I’m very lucky to be involved with Raw-T who are following in the footsteps of Dizzee Rascal, Wylie and Mike Skinner, in that British hip-hop has found its own voice which is a pretty peculiar thing to happen. I got accused on The Culture Show of jumping on a band wagon that was already happening, this was from Q magazine or N.M.E. Whereas the guy from Hip-Hop Connection was fantastic, as in someone who actually knew what he was talking about. It hasn’t really happened yet, it’s just beginning I think.

How important has Situationism been to you?

I was just a fan having been introduced to it by my acid dealer who happened to be the main translator of The Revolution Of Everyday Life by Raoul Vaneigem in Britain. I was a fan and therefore referred to it a lot in terms of naming things and various bits and pieces. Although when you look back on it in the end I think the way we did it, by, as Peter Saville once said, in the entire fourteen years of Factory not one decision was ever taken, EVER with an eye to profit. And that was entirely true actually! So in some way we behaved properly. There was a contract and the contract said we own nothing, the musicians own everything, That was a mistake, but it was very nice at the time and very idealistic, but looking back on it fuck the musicians I say.

We actually I’d say, were responsible for removing the world’s greatest rock and roll writer for about fifteen years, which is Greil Marcus, from rock’n'roll. He got a copy of our first record and stuck a Durutti Column sticker on his deck and looked at it for two years thinking “What the fuck is this?’, and finally discovered it was a Strasbourg (Andre Bertrand) political cartoon at the end of which he got completely involved in it and became buried in it and became the world expert on Situationism. Which is bit of a shame because it took him away from writing until he wrote his Elvis Presley/Bill Clinton book which I adore that he really came back to the fold. The greatest book on rock and roll is Mystery Train by Greil Marcus by a million miles.

What’s your involvement in the upcoming Joy Division film?

I’m a producer on the movie and in a way I think that’s because it makes it more official having me involved, (stupidly) and it does reflect to a degree what was their concern about the rival film. The rival film has now completely fucking gone, thank god. There’s always only been one project, the film which is based on Debbie Curtis’s book (Touching From A Distance) and that always been how it’s approached. The people making the film are two American guys; there was an American man and woman from New York that were making the film called Double A Films, however they fell out and also the woman fell out with Debbie Curtis. An option on a book has to be renewed, and they didn’t renew the option otherwise they’d be still be making the film, but I presume they kept promising Debbie they were renewing it. Some of these Americans have so much money they don’t know what it’s like for us over here. No money was paid, the option ceased at which point these two guys Todd Eckert and Orian Williams, who had been friends from school years decided to step in and take up the option. Todd is a Pittsburgh guy, and Orian works out of Los Angeles, so it’s a Pittsburgh/Los Angeles pairing that are doing this. They had actually talked to Sophia Coppola who is a Joy Division fan, there was interest from her, but in the end they chose Anton Corbijn which I think is a great idea.

So their choice of Anton mirrored my own choice because I realised that when I had to make a video for Atmosphere in 1988 I would have to use the old photographs, and therefore it seemed logical to use either Kevin Cummins or Anton. There was only two photographers who took the great photographs of Ian and for whatever reason I chose Anton even though I’ve just recently done a photo shoot with the beloved Mr Cummins, who moaned at me. He said ‘If I do a photoshoot for you, will you stop bad mouthing me? At the press conference for the Ian Curtis film you were bad mouthing me.’ I said ‘I wasn’t bad mouthing you. I said you’re a miserable twat Kevin. You are a miserable fuckin twat.’ To which he laughed and accepted it, because he is totally a miserable twat.

Anton’s lovely, and I’ve met Anton a few times and obviously he did that video, and the strange thing about that video is, Greton hated it and told me the whole fucking group hated it. For 15 years I was under the impression that the group hated it, but it turned out the group loved it, only Rob fuckin hated it. So if they hadn’t have brought Anton in to do this I’d have never have found that out. It’s my double revenge on Rob really. "Atmosphere"’s a perfect video, but you can see where Rob comes from, who though it was over-egging the legend of blah-blah-blah. Fuck that anyway, to me anyone else touching it who wasn’t there at the time, it would have been immoral. Whereas because Anton had taken the photographs, he was fucking around with his own pictures and to me there was always going to be integrity. So now choosing Anton for the film is a great great move. And secondly choosing writer Matt Greenhalgh (Burn It) who is number three in the Red Productions school of rock and roll, the top T.V. drama company in Britain. Its number one writer is Russell T. Davies (Dr Who), number two writer is Paul Abbot (Shameless), number three writer is Matt Greenhalgh. So as far as I’m concerned at the moment these two American boys have done a fantastic job of choosing the right director and writer. Obviously the casting will be something of an issue, but I have nothing to do with it.

I did recommend one actor who could play the part he played in 24 Hour Party People, he could play me, he could play Ian, he could play Martin, he could play anybody in this film and I was with him the other night when he won best actor at The Empire Awards. He’s Britain’s best actor he’s called Paddy Considine who played Rob in the film. I kept going to London going “Fuckin hell man, there’s a guy playing Rob!’, and they’d go ‘Didn’t you know that John Simm is the second best young actor in Britain?’ As in everybody who works in movies knows that Paddy Considine is the best actor in Britain. His first film that made him famous was Romeo Brass, obviously he was amazing as Gretton. My only input on actors is that Paddy could play anybody.

Martin Hannett; tell me about his genius.

I could talk about Martin Hannett for days so don’t start me. What’s very strange I think is that most great producers go mad because they only ever find one sound. Whereas groups can find two or three sounds in their career and go through various changes. William! Sorry beg your pardon. William! [Interlude of Tony sorting out his puppy that is trying to play with another dog. Sounds of apologies to another dog owner]- Every interview I do these days is interspersed with this. You stupid dog!! He’s a "Blue Monday" dog. The dog from the New Order video. I have no time for dogs whatsoever, but my partner knew that many years ago I worked with Bill Wegman on the Blue Monday ’88 video and fell in love with Wegman and his Weimaraner dog.

Last November my partner said two things: Number one you should sign Raw-T, number two I’m buying you a dog for Christmas. They are obviously the most beautiful dogs in the world, but no one told me that in the dog world they are famous for being the most loopy, fucking stupid off-their-head nutcases, so I’ve got this complete idiot dog now! He’s actually had the snip but that would never calm him down, and has got me in a lot of trouble with Peter Saville because his girlfriend used to think she was a wolf when she was a teenager, loves dogs and wolves, and I got into a lot of trouble from Peter for having giving William the snip and it’s made no fucking difference whatsoever.

Back to Hannett. All producers go mad because they normally only find one sound in their life. In fact Martin Hannett found two sounds, and he even came back a third time when he was just having a laugh with the Mondays, so I think he did pretty fucking well. If you want to go through the history of Martin very simply. The early phase where he was learning about the studio with Manchester Animation company, which he did the soundtrack for. Then he pioneered punk with "Spiral Scratch" and "Cranked Up Really High" [Buzzcocks]. Then unbeknown to me until I found out years later, he goes and meets these guys in a carpark on the moors above Burnley and tells them the sound he’s imagining in his head, off his head on fucking drugs and he drives back to Manchester at midnight, they drive back to their shed in Burnley and they build the world’s first digital delay machine, the AMF digital delay which is the most important outboard equipment of the last fifty years. And it was fifteen years later when some guy stopped me and said, ‘I want to thank you, one of your partners changed my life.’ When I realised it was AMF I went ‘No, you changed his life by giving him that equipment.’ He said, ‘Don’t you know where it came from?’ And I had no idea it came out of Martin’s head. The first time he ever worked with that Digital delay machine was on the song Digital. And that was on the Factory Sample, his first day with Joy Division. And then of course he used it on Unknown Pleasures and it changed the way drums sound forever, he used it on ESG and everything else. So the first thing is he changed the drum sound of the world forever by the Digital Delay.

But then what he’s not given credit for, because "Blue Monday" is given the credit for being the first great modern music track which uses computers. In fact although I would never try and cross Bernard because he’s extremely clever, (well New Order got the credit), but if you look at Bernard’s production of Marcel King at the same time, and the 52nd Street band, Section 25 then it’s obviously Bernard who was doing that. But Bernard learnt it all by watching Martin. In fact the most important track of all is "Everything’s Gone Green". If you listen to it, is the beginning of modern music, and "Temptation" takes it one stage further. And then Martin and New Order break up and they go off to do "Blue Monday" as the next record, that’s the one that quiet rightly is seen as this incredible break through, but nevertheless the important song is "Everything’s Gone Green".

So Martin created that music and then were it not for the utter stupidity of Alan Erasmus, Rob Gretton and Tony Wilson he would have created the next music because he was desperate to get a Fairlight. It was a synthesiser computer keyboard, and basically what Martin, Stephen and Bernard were doing with soldering irons in 1980, suddenly by 1983 there was a machine that did it called a Fairlight. We had no idea what one was, what we knew was that it cost thirty fuckin grand and we were running the Hacienda and you could fuck off. So we used to row about this all the time. ‘I want a Fairlight. You can’t have a Fairlight. What’s this piece of shit you’re building? Where’s my Fairlight?’ He never got a Fairlight, Trevor Horn got a Fairlight and the rest is Frankie Goes To Hollywood and the rest is history. I’ve very recently begun to claim that we created Trevor Horn, by stopping Martin getting a fucking Fairlight. And then the big fight and they go and fall out with each other and it’s the lawsuit and stuff, and suddenly the genius of Erasmus and Nathan, the Mondays manager, getting him to produce the Mondays’ Bummed album which was fantastic."

****

And yes, Bummed is a fucking fantastic album. Along with Unknown Pleasures, Technique, the first singles from New York’s early 1980s all sister rap band ESG and other great works of A.H. Wilson Associated. It could be said that Mr Wilson likes the sound of his own voice. It could be said he’s arrogant. It has been said he’s a twat. And he probably is. Who gives a fuck? The point to Wilson apart from the usual record mogul/twat tag is that he’s added spice and swaggering art to the British music scene, he’s that way because of that drive to spread his gospel on what he likes about music and culture. A question I forgot to ask him was: has it all been down to luck? What has been his secret, if there has been any? It will be interesting to see where Raw-T and his record label F4 end up in the grand scheme of musical things.

Think of alternative rock in the 1970s and we immediately think of The Ramones, Talking Heads, Television as the major musical forces in those heady times. An under-rated band of that much pillaged and productive scene were underground rockers Pere Ubu – subterranean innovators of the new-wave/post-punk elementary division.

Along with new-wave band Devo, Pere Ubu had thrashed on the fringes of Cleveland, Ohio’s music circuit for a few years in the guise of Rocket From The Tombs. Lead singer David Thomas had formed RFTT in 1974 with guitarist Peter Laughner, who died of acute pancreatitis or the plain ravages of rock & roll in 1977. After a few years of finely tutoring their school of garage nihilism via Stooges covers, RFTT had distanced themselves from the usual industry career path. With the addition of bass player Tom Herman, drummer Scott Krauss and keyboardist Allen Ravenstine, RFTT metamorphosised into Pere Ubu.

Something sets Pere Ubu apart from other bands. For a start how many bands name themselves after a character created by 19th century French playwright Alfred Jarry? How many bands before them insisted on having no group photos on their record sleeves? And however unshocking, an early Rocket From The Tombs tune mouthed the word ‘cunt’ on ‘Ain’t It Fun’. Not many bands did that in 1974. But it’s something other that sets Pere Ubu apart; something alien, almost dangerous, ironic and fascinating that lurks within their out-of-shape yet tight as metal song structures; those purely dynamic slabs of fury that present apocalyptic landscapes, stellar production and emotions of insanity that burn your ears out. They dealt in human extremes but were never unlistenable. Singles ’30 Seconds Over Tokyo’ (1975) and ‘Final Solution’ (1976) are songs years ahead of their time with an inventive attitude that current heavyweights like Radiohead and Franz Ferdinand have just about caught up with a quarter of a century later. First album The Modern Dance (1978) now stands as a landmark album in that the dubby, droned out bass-lines and off-kilter sounds were unlike anything hitherto produced. (Well, except perhaps Captain Beefheart.)

An opening song being called ‘Nonalignment Pact’, and, as Julian Cope described it, “a classic ‘girl’ song with the most Stooged-out riff”, just says it all. Thomas’s voice could shriek and whisper, the bursting guitars sounded like M16 gunfire and the cover looked like utopian propaganda created in Lenin’s Russia. Follow up album, the just as inventive Dub Housing (1978), loosened up the extremes, slowed down the delivery; but equally sounded as though recorded between Cleveland’s skidrow and the volcanoes of Java and is widely regarded as their masterpiece. They continued in the following decades to release challenging records, all soaked in that American underground experience that makes them a great, almost undiscovered band and a perfect medicine against the corporate crap of mainstream music.

David Thomas is still lead singer in Pere Ubu, and in recent times he’s additionally created three albums and plays live with a band he calls David Thomas and Two Pale Boys. Still crossing boundaries and staying true to his art with the stance that originally set the band apart, I managed to ask him a few questions that I’ve always wanted to find answers for. Important things, trivial things. Here’s what I found out about his work, his attitude and other stimulating or meaningless details.

I’ve been reading the Pere Ubu manifesto which I find interesting. Things like “Don’t seek success”. What’s the idea behind messages like that?

We have always concentrated on making good music. If you make good music people will search you out. Maybe not lots of them. But some. As well we have always been laissez-faire perfectionists. Seeking success distracts from the principal function of a musical group. It offers up temptations to deviate from a proper course. I have nothing against “success” – I love the process of the market in fact – but not at the cost of vision.

You’re playing in London with members of Sun Ra Arkestra and Wayne Kramer. What’s your involvement with the event?

Wayne is a friend and played a show as a member of Pere Ubu a few years ago. I suppose he is “repaying” the compliment. He asked me to guest with the MC5 and Arkestra. I am doing “Starship”. It’s a great honour and I am excited to do it.

Why the transition from Rocket From The Tombs to Pere Ubu?

Because RFTT flew apart and I had ideas I wanted to pursue.

When I hear 60s garage hits, I hear some kinda semblance of the Ubu -style. What U.S. punk bands of the 60s were you inspired by?

We were always into the American garage punk of the 60s. You have to remember we grew up listening to all that stuff on the radio. That was what was on the radio. All that stuff was hits. Very big influence on Pere Ubu along with Velvets, Stooges and MC5. Our first engineer and father of our current engineer, Ken Hamann, was the engineer for songs like Nobody But Me, Time Won’t Let Me, Green Tambourine, all the early Terry Knight stuff, Bloodrock, James Gang, etc.

Any British bands that have had a profound effect upon you?

Profound? Probably not. Richard Thompson was a big influence on the early 70s scene as were Soft Machine, Pink Floyd (early), Incredible String Band. Some guys were really into Kinks and Pretty Things. Eno, of course. Kevin Ayres. John Cale.

The track ’30 Seconds Over Tokyo’ seems prophetic in its resonance. What were you trying to express in that song?

It was a dramatic story of heroism and a book that EVERY school boy read – Doolittle’s suicide raid on Tokyo in 1942 just 2 months after Pearl Harbor. A good choice for our cinematic approach. Brief synopsis. US needed to strike a propaganda blow against Japan right after Pearl Harbor and to suggest to Japanese leaders that they were not safe from retribution. Stripped down a flight of B-25s of everything but a few bombs and launched them off a carrier which they’d never be able to return to (fuel) or land on (size). The plan was to drop bombs on Tokyo harbour sites and crash land in China if they could make it, and then somehow get back to America from the other side of the world. Most died.

It must take a lot of balls to sing in such unique style. Where has it all come from?

It comes from not having a good voice, being tone-deaf and not knowing what I was supposed to do. I became the singer because the guitar I bought in order to become the guitarist hurt my fingers. So I decided to be the singer. I had NEVER sung and I couldn’t hit any notes– I really am tone-deaf. So I had to figure it out. What I figured out was that music also existed as a spatial and temporal complex so I worked out how to use those elements to communicate a story in a musical way that had a semblance of melody. I create a phrasing that makes use of those elements, engages the instrumental elements, and it all somehow comes out okay. At least after a couple initial years of trial and error. That was part of my frustration of singing in RFTT– I didn’t know how to handle not being able to hear myself. Also in RFTT I sang other people’s songs which I didn’t really understand so I didn’t know how to construct them according to my methods and I knew I sounded bad. As well I have no method to remember what I sing, i.e. a melody. That’s why every time I sing a song it varies to a greater or lesser extent. That’s why I mostly only do material I write with musicians I know.

The artwork you’ve used on record sleeves is a fantastic portfolio. What’s behind that?

Almost all our artwork has been designed by my best friend, John Thompson. A lot of the pictures were by Mik Meilon – friend from the Plaza. I discuss some ideas with John and give him the title. He comes up with an idea and we bounce it around a little. The idea was to do artwork that was more than a self-aggrandizing ego thing– note we never put our pictures on the albums except for ‘Tenement Year’ which we only did because we had never done it. We break even our own rules. The artwork needs to set a mood that cooperates with the intentions of the music.

What new records do you have in the pipeline?

About to start writing a new Ubu. Writing with Cheetah for possible RFTT album. Working on a 2 Pale Boys live album. Compiling Director’s Cut editions of RGS and PA. More movie soundtracks for ICFOS and X, The Man With X-Ray Eyes. Compiling 18 Monkeys – The Film soundtrack.

What writers do you like?

Raymond Chandler.

Any final nuggets of wisdom that you’d like to offer?

I never volunteer information.

***

All the greats have an edge, a certain intelligence and David Thomas seems to be one your more cerebral rock&roll musicians; so you can get away with asking questions like that. And the line ‘If you make good music people will search you out’, seems to be more than enough wise advice that you usually hear from your average rocker. Ubu fit into that cult category of being a band that made people want form their own bands. They were dangerous. Scuzzed out. Angular. Violent. Everybody in a rock band should listen to them. All the best ones already do. Any UK gigs would sell out in instant, although no future dates are confirmed; but with an Ubu record in the making, the live experience is on some distant horizon. The meantime can offer the opportunity to look for new bands that dare stretch those anarchic, outward boundaries set by Pere Ubu.

Does anybody ever go out on a Sunday night? I’m always too knackered to bother most weeks, but this particular night was an unmissable opportunity to see an unmissable psychedelic brain feast. I was out to see a space-man from another age, to see the whites of his eyes connect into the stratosphere. This man was Damo Suzuki. This space was about one foot when he strolled on sagely by after a blazing, intense, intimate and triumphant performance that came from heart of what made Can when fronted by Damo, one of the best bands of the 1970s. His current band is a world wide collective called Damo Suzuki’s Network. Musicians that Damo has spontaneously hooked up with on his vocal journey around planet earth. I didn’t say shit to Damo that night. Too wasted to greet the only man that can say ‘I am Damo Suzuki’ and not be bullshitting. The legend himself was in the vicinity. In the words of the Quiet One: It was all too much. It was all too fuckin much.

The man who had just walked-on-by was one of those genius-like men that we discover when we traverse the works of Beatles/Pistols/Nirvana to unearth the deeper jewels of rock music’s cavernous domain and discover sounds that truly put character into our souls. It’s then we arrive upon people like Suzuki. A longhaired Japanese man born in 1950, with a black wispy moustache and wisdom resonating from his eyes, Damo Suzuki was the singer in the German avant-rock band Can from 1971 to 1973. His sometimes serene, other times terrifying spontaneous vocal delivery and the drugged funk, space-age gothic repetition of the band carved a significant notch onto the draft of modern music.

Bands from The Stone Roses, Sonic Youth, The Coral have all embezzled from the Can archive to inspired effect. Think ‘Fools Gold’ or ‘Metal Box’. Shaun William Ryder even managed to ram-raid Damo’s stoned beat style on the Mondays’ early cuts. And lest we forget The Fall’s classic pagent to all things wonderful with ‘I Am Damo Suzuki’. And if you didn’t know, it’s even been expressed that Can’s underbelly of repetitive drum, bass and glacial synth sound laid the groundwork for Detroit artists like Juan Atkins to invent techno in the 1980s. The influence, importance and the sheer funked-out bliss of the band Can should never be underestimated.

I eventually reassembled the means and energy to speak to Damo Suzuki. It took nearly twelve months and to have the world yet a computer between us, but eventually we conversed. Manchester – The Wires – Melbourne – And Back.

What situations led you into singing music? And how did you develop that unique style?

All creative things begin with Zero. Situation of no information. If you are free, actually you can find many ways to express your feeling. . . It’s much more natural and no repetition. This is the moment we are together with audience in trance. I don’t think it’s unique….we’re doing what all we can in the moment….TOGETHER.

What sort of music do you listen to? Any new bands out there that have sparked your interest?

I listen to almost no music deeply. I don’t need much information. Before I heard Russian classical music of 20th. Jazz before the 70′s, and folk music from around the globe. I’m thankful for all those sound carriers who joined NEVER ENDING TOUR project. I get inspiration from them in this music cosmos, which we are creating. All those young bands/artist who are finding their roots and creating united energy together.

You were a street artist in late 1960′s Cologne What was life like? Did you find wisdom on the streets?

I was street artist not only in Cologne. I performed in European continent at that time. It was hippy time. I just liked to travel and meet other people For that I didn’t have money, I made money on the street when I have nothing in my pocket to go next place. Street is where you meet people, just any kind of people. I was not only playing guitar and singing. I had no plan. I made some time happening, kind of one man theatre or painting on the street as well.

Could you explain how you clicked so perfectly into the Can sound? How did that perfect transition and that naturalness between yourselves happen?

I don’t know if I was flexible enough or them. But things were sure that we hated any information, we didn’t like to create music like everybody else. We’re anarchist. So, for everybody it was easy to create something. When we create sound we started from zero. So, it’s easy thing. Nobody should not be corrected from someone. We’re all in same space.

What were the Can years like for you on a personal level?

It’s almost like school days. Some times you see them on a photo and I remember I was together with them. He was good in French and he was trying to be good in mathematics. He was always clothed in short pants. To look back is a waste of time. I’m 55, already I have to see much more in front. My time is not tick tacking my time. I’m the pig man. I can’t turn my neck to see back.

What was the story or reason for your departure with Can?

I left Can after being there for 3 years. It was enough for me to leave after ‘Future Days’. We’re getting well known band, TV’s there, interviews here. I was only 23 years old and much more curious about another life.

Are there any new musical releases this year?

Very soon comes a double CD called “HollyAris”…I mean I’m going to release only doubles in future, except one CD I edited already. It’s nice to have more than two hours of pure instant composed music which will never be performed again. ‘HollyAris’ has two location recorded live. One is in Hollywood another is Paris. As I perform with local sound carriers. CD 1 called Hollywood is performed by sound carriers from Los Angeles and Japanese guitarist Mandog. CD 2 called Paris is performed by sound carriers from France. After they formed a band called FRENCH DOCTORS as they found chemistry between them. And they are recording their first record. After this next one is also waiting to hit…which comes about a couple of months later. this is named ‘SUOMI’. This is completely different….’Hollywood’ brings you a much more Californian air. ‘Paris’ brings you male perfume. But this is hard rock in Sauna. Suomi means Finland. This double CD is one is recorded at Turku, I guess the second Large city in Finland. And an another recorded in Helsinki. Sound Carriers are two German, an American, a Ukrainian and a Japanese (me!!!)

You bring together many musicians via your Network. It must be a huge worldwide collective? How do you find that experience?

Yes, the list of sound carriers are getting long. Some big cities like London or New York…is really long list that I have to perform there for every month some years long. And sound carriers who performed once, they like to make it again……I’m crying for happiness. No matter which musical field they belongs to. Ages, male or female, Nationality whatsoever. Or long experience as a professional or who’ve never played since 20 years. For sound making is not that important all those information you are carrying…..most important is ambition which brings positive energy. And we become one unit. Then we can create time and space of the moment.

Do you write lyrics, do you map out ideas or is it all pure spontaneity?

All is spontaneity.

What are the many languages in your music? Words has no meaning in sound making. I don’t like to sing messages while WE are creating together. I’m not leader of the moment creating. Everybody in that room is involved and everybody have own function, that I don’t have to force their creativity with my words. All music instruments has own words, why vocal must be middle of all? I use my own language mostly…which is non-documented language. My word of the moment which is used as music instruments.

What channels do you take to get to the place you reach inside when you create your music?

When sound carriers are on the stage, there works a magnet field between us and we get chemistry and it works. Sound creating is limitless world of time and space. You can go to any direction as we find information at the moment…one can make one music, two can make three music. I mean. It’s our conversation and understanding.

Are you aware of the huge influence you’ve had on bands like The Fall in the UK? Do you get much contact from any UK bands?

I say it’s not bad they found something about us, they had good tastes. I have many contact with UK bands as I perform every time with different sound carriers in different cities. Mostly young unknown but ambitious bands. To make contact is easy today with internet access. Internet is the greatest development for years.

In May you are playing major UK cities. How do you find the UK?

UK is something special. It works well with instant composing. Even small places there’s always carriers who like to perform with me and their quality of playing is high. Audience is honestly…if they like it they like it. They are not shy to travel for long distances to visit and be in our event. Sound carriers who performed with me mail me to perform with them again and some of them organise shows with themselves. Fancy witnessing a musical legend in close motion then? An icon of the psychedelic-punk age? The man who taught most of our musical masters to sing? To be able to see the whites of his wise eyes sing out sweet and formidable odes. ‘This is the moment’ says Damo, ‘we are together with audience in trance.’ We’re not talking Phil Collins here. The venue’s Damo and his Network will be playing are intimate in size, and should capture a certain incomparable atmosphere if you’ve never seen his performance before. Don’t exactly walk on glass to see this one-off underground superstar, but you could try crawling. It might be worth it. And if you wanna join him for a psychedelic freakout session then you can always have a word with this guy. He’s cool. He’s approachable. He’s Damo Suzuki.